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arero 62M
358 posts
3/15/2019 8:55 pm
Update


Developments today in the aftermath of the Christchurch shooting. One gunman is now thought to have been responsible for all the shootings at both mosques. He has appeared in court and remanded in custody. No application was made for bail. Probably realises he's safer inside than out. Two other people are under investigation as to whether they had anything to do with it all. A fourth person has been released. Seems he just happened to be wearing camo clothes near the scene.

So the restraint shown by police in capturing all the suspects and not just shooting them has been fully justified. We may also learn things from the shooter can help prevent future attacks like this.

Rugby between the Crusaders (Christchurch based) and their neighbours the Highlanders has been cancelled. Not sure if I support . Cricket against Bangladesh is cancelled as they were the mosque was shot and just want to go home. I fully understand one.

Stories are coming out of heroes who stopped in the street to help the injured while gunfire was still going on.

The PM and attorney general are saying firearms law will change to ban semi auoto weapons. As a hunter and responsible firearms owner and user I support this. There are no situations I have encountered in 45 of hunting required a semi auto. They are used for professional culling operations from helicopters and I assume this might continue. Handguns are virtually unknown in NZ and require a much stricter and harder to obtain licence category.

There are lots of comments on my previous posts, most supportive and a couple upset quite badly so if anyone is interested go back and check. Thanks to all commenters, even the ones I disagree with!

jenny14 70T  
69492 posts
3/15/2019 9:31 pm

a

I too hope something is learned that will help prevent other atrocities like this!

I think Australia learnt a lot from the investigation into the Lindt Cafe siege!

I too see no reason for semi automatic weapons except warfare! But, then I am against all guns except in exceptional circumstances!! (I do understand why people want and have guns - they are just not my thing! )

A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing. George Bernard Shaw

Jenny


arero replies on 3/16/2019 12:04 am:
I've never liked semi auto weapons mainly from an accident safety point of view but this puts a whole new perspective on it.

brandygirasol 49T  
3878 posts
3/15/2019 10:46 pm

Well then I guess you are probably saying... "Thank God Nobody With A Gun Was Around To Shoot The Murderer Before He Managed To Kill So many People"...


arero replies on 3/16/2019 12:13 am:
I refer you to the shooting of Emantic Bradford at Riverchase Galleria shopping mall, 22 November 2018. Not only was the wrong person shot, by trained police officers, but the perpetrator got away and was arrested later. From what I've read it was mayhem, with people pulling guns all over the show.

I do not believe more guns are the answer, or more killing. It's a fallacy that this will keep people safe.

ina_scent 63F  
1758 posts
3/15/2019 11:49 pm

I am glad to hear your words arero "... the restraint shown by police in capturing all the suspects and not just shooting them has been fully justified. We may also learn things from the shooter can help prevent future attacks like this."

This approach is much more effective than in the US where nearly everyone has a handgun, and is willing to shoot anyone who makes them mad

You can only expand the mind so far before it implodes...


arero replies on 3/16/2019 12:02 am:
NZ police do not routinely carry guns although there were many armed police on the scene that day and the officers who apprehended the main suspect were armed.

ina_scent 63F  
1758 posts
3/16/2019 12:20 am

aero .. I much prefer the approach you tell about from there. In the US we sometimes have vigilantes who think they are solving problems, but have no real skiils or training. And many advocate such as the person above and pretend the rest of us are stupid for not following their example.

You can only expand the mind so far before it implodes...


arero replies on 3/16/2019 2:15 am:
Yes. Look at the stats for firearms accidents and then try to tell me more guns are needed!

sub_nouveau 49F  
9885 posts
3/16/2019 1:48 am

Immensely supportive of gun control, and I've never understood why guns are available to "Joe Public". Apart from farmers who should have access to rifles to help protect their stock - but even then, no need for automatic or semi-automatic rifles or handguns.

Let's talk. It's how we learn about yesterday and comprehend today.


arero replies on 3/16/2019 2:14 am:
I'm a hunter from a farming background so I've always been around firearms and in the hands of a responsible person they are no problem to anyone. The issue is determining who is a responsible owner. I've always maintained that firearms crimes are committed by unlicensed people with illegal weapons, but this guy was licensed so that blows that one out of the water. I think the best compromise is to try to limit the damage some nut job can do by banning semi automatic weapons. Automatics and handguns are already illegal in NZ for most people,

drmgirl622 63F  
9288 posts
3/16/2019 11:05 am

I do believe in the right to bear arms.....yes a very unpopular stance but it is mine. What I do know is that extremists are using any and all excuse to justify their reasons for this hatred.


arero replies on 3/16/2019 12:36 pm:
Then you must be prepared to accept the cost of widespread gun ownership. Gun violence rates in the US, criminal, suicide and accidental combined, are 25 times greater than the rest of the OECD. The vast majoriy of deaths are caused by handguns.

I will say though that in the US, where guns are so entrenched, it's unrealistic to ban them,whereas in NZ, where handguns are virtually unknown, it would be lunacy to admit them.

sub_nouveau 49F  
9885 posts
3/16/2019 12:56 pm

This concept of "responsible" owner is flawed. Guns are made to kill - that's a fact - it is their sole design. And the victim/s are at the gun holder's discretion - that's a fact. Sometimes the victim/s are unintended (eg child locating a gun in their home and accidentally shooting themselves or a play pal). Most times the victim/s are intended, and for a "responsible" owner, those victim/s would be animals of some description and not humans.

But what happens in times of deep distress; times of anxiety or depression? How much does it take for any given person to switch from "responsible" to "temporary insane"? We have governments who have learned that propaganda and fear mongering win them elections - make the people scared & then offer them a solution,and they'll vote for you. Is a frightened person a "responsible" gun owner - everyone who is different is a potential threat, so shoot first & ask questions later?

A person may be "responsible" in one moment and irresponsible the next - because being responsible is only as good as the decision made in the moment - and dependent upon a person's frame of mind at any given time, even a "responsible" gun owner may make an horrific & irreversible decision.

Is a gun holder's reason for wanting to kill their intended victim/s, responsible?

Guns are made for the sole purpose of killing - and that's a fact.

Let's talk. It's how we learn about yesterday and comprehend today.


arero replies on 3/16/2019 1:07 pm:
You have a good point. My cousin recently shot himself so nobody can say they are immune from acting irrationally.

My guns are made and used for killing animals, which is not to say they wouldn't just as effectively kill a person. It has been ingrained in me from a young age to never ever point a firearm anywhere near a person and I don't believe I would ever shoot a person even in self defence. Defence of my kids maybe...

I strongly dislike my grandkids pointing toy guns at people and if they point them at me I confiscate them. Unfortunately the media portray not only pointing but shooting, and this is seen as acceptable entertainment for kids.

We will never totally eliminate firearms or firearm crime so the issue is of risk reduction and the debate needs to be about what level of risk is acceptable. I believe the concept of guns keeping people safe is morally and factually indefensible.

sub_nouveau 49F  
9885 posts
3/16/2019 3:04 pm

I'm very sorry about your cousin, arero - please accept my condolences.
We have certainly been taught that human life is of less value than it was once perceived; have become desensitised to violence and killing; and think we have the right to kill people, at our own discretion. It is a world gone mad, and I thank you for continuing to try to instill good values

Let's talk. It's how we learn about yesterday and comprehend today.


arero replies on 3/16/2019 7:51 pm:
Thank you Nouveau. I actually think western society is less violent than virtually any era in the past. I posted about this in Violence


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